Sistas do you agree? Part 1: Tough Love for the Sisters

[izayoi]

This was posted on the main board, but as usual a chorus of amens ensued without much substantive critique. They also ignored this sistas OTHER posts with tough words for black men too. I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

For the Sistas:
As Things Stand Today Black Women Cannot Compete For The Affection Of Men

That goes for all men…no matter their race.

Despite the female sex organ between my legs I can see the issues black women (collectively) have and because sugarcoating the truth is not my style (nor does it ever help anyone), I will give you my honest unapologetic opinion…as usual…

As things stand today I don’t think black women (collectively) can compete with other races of women for the affection of men (of any race). Many of us are so screwed up on so many issues and things are getting worse as the days go by. Like our black male counterparts, we have issues with self-worth. Too many of us show no interest in maintaining a healthy weight/diet. Too many of us hate our natural hair/beauty. Too many of us have children out of wedlock and have no desire to have a traditional family structure. Too many of us put emphasis on superficial bullshit (money, cars, and clothes). Too many of us blame everything and everyone else for our issues instead of accepting responsibility. Too many of us think other races of men are the CURE for black men/loneliness/bitterness when the reality is much of the problem is with us as individuals.

When someone (more than likely a black man) tries to point out the many flaws of black women he is labeled a “basher” or “closed minded.” The reality is the flaws (or stereotypes) of black women (collectively) are a legitimate concern for men. Therefore, I can’t blame black men or any race of men for being turned the hell off by black women. I find myself turned off by the attitudes/personalities of other black women so I can only imagine how men must feel.

Think about it…

How can bald headed Tameka, who is a size 16 with two children by two different men (who ditched her), and a head full of weave compete with Ming Lee and Becky who are a size 6, walking around with their natural hair, and are childless?

How can Whitney, who is a size 11 with two college degrees, no sense of femininity (we know this because the idiot is always talking about how strong she is and she makes no effort to look the part of an attractive woman), and cannot conceptualize the idea of submitting to a man compete with Mary Ann, who is a size 4 with one college degree (plus an education in how to get/keep a man… courtesy of her mother) and is willing to jump through hoops to please a man?

The answer: Tameka and Whitney cannot compete…at all. They have very little to offer a man and their baggage is undesirable. If a man wanted a quick fuck and a headache he could approach Tameka. If a man wanted tutoring he could approach Whitney because that’s about the only thing she’s good for (well that and children to continue the teaching of the strong independent black woman myth…another headache).

Meanwhile, Ming Lee and Becky are probably fucking their way right into the hearts of their future husbands, who in turn value their sexy bodies in lingerie, their ability to adequately take birth control, and their long flowing natural hair. Not to mention their future husbands will appreciate having a peace of mind knowing they won’t have to pick up the “bill” from the last man to take a “ride” who dropped a baby and got the hell out of dodge. Furthermore, Mary Ann is over in her own world climaxing her way into a good life with a man in the household, who doesn’t mind taking care of her because she’s doing a damn good job of taking care of him.

Get the picture? Probably not…let me spell it out further.

A few weeks ago I finally got up the stomach to go see the film Precious with my other half. It was a good film and I actually enjoyed it (for the most part). However, while watching the film I found myself thinking, “Gee, black women look bad as hell in this movie.” Even though the film is a work of fiction many of its themes still hold true to black women and today’s black family in real life.

Just to keep this post “simple” and to the point I’ll focus on the basics of the film…

Lately, I’ve noticed how the average black woman physically resembles something like the main character, Precious, rather than (and I’m just throwing a name out there) Sanaa Lathan. That is the average black woman is big, round, short, and bald. If not for the invention of weave many of us would never know the feeling of having a head full of hair. I don’t care what part of the country you live I’m sure you see or have seen what I’m talking about. Even though we have a very diverse group of black women here in Atlanta, I need only travel outside of the city limits to the nearest department store (a Wal-Mart would be ideal) and see everything in this post to be true.

The attitude/mentality of Precious’ mother (portrayed by Monique) was exaggerated, but very real to life. I’ve heard some of her words come out of the mouths of black people. I’ve been around black women who not only share her mentality about life, but who also share elements of her bitter character. It was frightening how close to life that film portrayed SOME black women. It also made me sad. Sad because I know even if I walked up and slapped the hell out of the average black woman she would deny the truth in the parallels between the characters in Precious and black women around her. Why? Black women don’t like to admit that their shit sinks too. Many of us would like to go on living this lie that black women are somehow carrying the black community in the absence of black men when the reality is we’re failing…miserably (especially where black children are concern).

My question is when did black women say, “Fuck it! It’s not worth making an effort anymore.” Is the state of black women a reflection of the state of black men? I mean if the men are not there (both physically and mentally) who do black women have to please or attract? Who do black women have to look sexy for? The white man? Other races of men? Themselves? ←This should be the answer, but it's not for most black women. Whoever or whatever is left to appease doesn’t seem to be enough to make black women shape up.

I imagine I would have to stop giving a damn about life in order to just let myself “go.” Is this the problem with black women? Have we stopped caring about everything except money (a good job and a college education)?

I don’t understand the issues black women have with self-worth and self-esteem. Maybe my upbringing was very different than most black women. My parents (I grew up with both in the home) always told me I could DO anything and BE anything I desired. I never had issues getting or keeping a boyfriend. I never had an issue with my hair (I prefer my hair in its kinky natural state) or skin color. I actually grew up thinking black is beautiful.

My mother taught me the role of a woman and always told me to take good care of my face and figure. My grandmother made sure I learned how to cook. Both women made sure I knew how to be a lady and made it clear to me that it’s not natural for women to be independent of men. On the other side, it was my father (yes, you read it right) who pushed me to pursue education in order that I never be completely dependent upon a man.

Watching my mother interact with my father helped me connect the dots of a stable relationship. This is what I learned as a child from watching my mother: Family first and everything else second (including education). When I marry my husband and children come first…everything else second. Kids come AFTER marriage. Though I could very well have more education than him he is still the head of the household (and should be treated as such) while I am to be his right hand. End of story…

So, you see I can’t exactly wrap my mind around these issues I see with black women.

I’m sick of hearing black women say, “Black men are this, that, and the third” as a means of hiding their insecurities and not being able to attract a man (of any race). How the hell do you explain individuals like me who have no problem attracting a decent black man? Yes, black men (collectively) are fucked up, but I acknowledge there are some black men worth the fight. A decent black woman can attract a decent black man (no matter his country of origin).

Also, I’m tired of this sorry resentful attitude black women have in which they believe black women are the bottom of the totem pole. Maybe you believe YOU ARE at the bottom of the totem pole, but I’m not down there with you. Don’t place me at the bottom with you.

Despite the fact that I hate being aggressively approached/pursued by men perhaps I should be grateful that I’m approached at all. Knowing that I am physically attractive to men is one of the many reasons why I care about my looks/image. It gives me a certain about of arrogance. Not only do I feel I can compete with other races of women for the affection of men, but in my mind I would more than likely walk all over these other races of women.

The cult of black women on the internet promoting interracial dating as an ALTERNATIVE to black men have deluded themselves. This is the cult of black women who have no great love for other races of men, but instead have a great amount of hate for black men. If black men find black women in our current state unattractive what the hell would lead this group of black women to believe Tom (on the other side of the fence) finds them attractive?

As I stated before decent black women attract decent men (throwing race aside). Half-ass black women attract half-ass men. Take a look at the black women talking shit about black men while promoting interracial dating then take a look at their white knight. He is either a wigger or just plain unattractive (awkward looking at best). They are not hooking up with white men in the George Clooney/Brad Pitt league. Halle Berry didn’t even pull a white man in the George Clooney/Brad Pitt league. They’re hooking up with some the most unattractive/undesirable white men I’ve ever seen. But I suppose the only thing that matters to this group of women is his race (fuck his face) right? I digress…maybe I’m not seeing what they see.

If you want to attract a man or at least be able to compete for one you must first take a good look in the mirror. If you don’t love yourself how can you expect a man to love you? The real change starts with the man (or woman) in the mirror. I know that might sound cliché but most often it’s true. I’m afraid if black women don’t start looking in the mirror we’re going to continue to self-destruct because as it stands today black women are no competition for Becky, Mary Ann, or Ming Lee in regards to men…and they know it.

My questions…

1). When did black women say, “Fuck it...It’s not worth making an effort anymore” and why?
2). Is the state of black women a reflection of the state of black men?
3). Do you honestly believe black women can compete with other races of women for men in their current state?
4). What do you believe is the biggest challenge facing black women in terms of finding a mate?
5). I don’t know if I have any white men reading this blog but this question is for you: How does it make you feel knowing many black women either view you as an alternative to black men or an “escape” from the issues with them?

[izayoi]

For the Brothers:

If This Isn't Self-Hate I Don't Know What Is:


I’ve come to see something about black men that I never took the time to see before: There are a lot of black men who have issues with the way black women look. By that I’m not just referring to the weight and weave, which I believe are legitimate concerns for some black men. No, I’m talking about the fact that SOME black men have a problem with the physical features (the God given things we cannot control) of black women.

We all know there are certain physical features associated with the black race. Those features are wide nose, full lips, kinky/wavy/curly hair, brown eyes, and I think bone structure. In addition to these features SOME black women have other physical features, which are not black features (meaning black women don’t have a monopoly on these things), but are commonly associated with black women for whatever reason. They are a voluptuous/curvy body (the coke bottle shape…not always a given), and a nice full ass (also not always a given).

Now minus the body and the ass some black men openly admit they don’t like these features on women. Some say these features look masculine and therefore don’t look right on women. Many others simply say they’ve been conditioned by the European standard of beauty and it’s not their fault. Some black men flat out say they dislike the faces of black women. All of the above are piss poor excuses for what can only be considered self-hate.

I have to wonder…when black men (those who have an issue with the physical features of black women) look in the mirror do they like what they see? Black men have the same features as black women. We come from the same gene pool. If the features of black women are unattractive to black men then surely one can argue black men are unattractive to themselves. This leads to a few questions…

* Could this be the reason why SOME (key word) black men abuse, hate, and bash black women?
* If you hate (even unconsciously so) the features of a group of people (with whom you share those same features) how much would that play a role in how you treat or perceive that group?
* Could this be one of the many reasons why black men are so self-destructive?
* Could this be a major reason why interracial relationships with black men have increased over the years?
* Could SOME black men be seeking to “water down” their black features which they consider ugly/unattractive?

I personally believe there are more black men out here who have this issue than we would care to acknowledge. In fact, many may not even be consciously aware of it. I’ll give you an example…When the Reggie Bush Essence cover came out I read a comment on a blog in which a black man basically said black women were ugly. He said Latino women would be the ideal mates for black men because they have beautiful faces and voluptuous bodies, but they don’t typically date outside their race/culture. He said black women have the ideal body, but face wise black women are fucked up. He also said white women have the face, but lack the body. He went on to say finding a white woman like Kim Kardashian, who has both the face and body is like finding a one hundred dollar bill on the ground. To make a long comment short this asshole proved his dislike of black features. Looking back now perhaps he proved something I’ve heard black women say…

I’ve heard black women complain about black men only loving their features when those features are on non-black women. I guess the ivory skin color and long naturally straight hair make these features all the more appealing to black men. Two good examples come to mind right away: Angelina Jolie and Kim Kardashian. Angelina’s full lips are notorious in Hollywood. They are praised and considered beautiful. She has inspired many a white woman to get lip implants. There are a number of famous black women walking around with those same lips, but they NEVER…NEVER…receive the phrase bestowed on Angelina Jolie. Black men praise Kim Kardashian, who has full lips, brown eyes, a voluptuous body, long hair, and a nice ass. Some might argue this woman has inspired many a white woman to seek butt implants. There are a number of famous black women walking with those same lips, ass, and body. However, they NEVER…NEVER…receive the same praise from black men as Kim Kardashian.

“Von, it’s called PREFERENCE. Some black men have a preference for those features while others do not.”

Yeah…that is bullshit. How the hell is it preference to consider the features you have ugly or just ugly on those of your race? How is it preference to hate members of your race because of some shit they can’t control? Shouldn’t this individual be considered RACIST against his own?

Recall the infamous doll test…


As many times as that test has been done BOTH black boys and black girls have proclaimed the black doll as ugly. In all reality that childhood inferiority complex is probably carried over to black adults. We hear all the time how black girls have self-esteem problems and image issue with themselves, but we NEVER talk about black boys who probably also grow up to see black girls the same way they, black girls, see themselves (ugly). For example I’ve heard about black girls who think they are ugly and who hate the way they look (Fantasia Barrino and Mary J. Blige). Well, there is a good chance that black boys are also growing up to think black girls are ugly compared to non-black girls.

We really need to be honest when we ask ourselves how much does conditioning play a role in black boys/black men hating black features? I’ve heard black men say white women have been waved in their face since birth. Well, the white man has been waved in the faces of black women from the very beginning too yet we don’t share this problem.

Think about it…

Black women (as a collective) even with the self-esteem/image issues are attracted to black men. Black women (though I don’t believe this is wise) seek validation from black men in terms of our beauty. Black men matter too much to us. Most black women I run across like the way black men look. I don’t hear black women saying shit like, “Black men are ugly. I hate the way their faces look.” or “Black men’s lips are too big.” Yes, there are some black women who place emphasis on superficial B.S. such as “pretty babies with good hair,” but most of us want that black family unit with black kids who look like us. So this is an issue that very much falls on the shoulders of black men.

I don’t honestly think conditioning can be solely blamed for this issue. Otherwise black women would also share black men’s feelings about the features of the opposite sex of their race. We would go around thinking black men are ugly and inferior to non-black men look wise. No, I think the issue here is much deeper than conditioning. I asked my other half what he thought might be the reason behind this issue with black men and he had this to say…

Black men…especially black American men have a defeated disposition. They are easily misled and subdued. They have allowed their minds to be conquered. Many have allowed themselves to internalize the attitude of their oppressor about their women, their culture, their community, and themselves. Whites have historically portrayed black women as ugly and asexual. Some brothers carry this same notion. So they reject black women and lust after those on the other side of the beauty spectrum. Funny thing is these same fools can’t answer this question: If black women are so ugly/asexual/defective and we come from black women what the hell does that make us?


I agree with everything he said. Black men are the EASIEST group of people in the world to manipulate and deceive. Today it takes little to no effort to do so. The white man doesn’t have to use water hoses and dogs to subdue black men anymore. No, all he has to do is throw some money and pussy (particularly non-black pussy) in their direction and black men fall right in line.

“Von…how dare you reduce the black man to his penis and greed.”

Knee-grows please cut the bullshit! I know if I’ve recognized how easy it is to deceive black men the rest of the world has too. Remember there are black men walking around who base their whole existence/purpose in life around their libido (click here). Toss a couple of dollars in their direction and these idiots are a defeated people.

“The white man has taught the black man to hate himself,” I’m sure some people will say. Well, in order to be taught something one must first open himself to learning. I don’t believe the white man can be blamed for this one. Self-hate is like self-esteem. Both revolve around your feelings about YOURSELF. No one can make you hate yourself. No one should have the power to make you hate yourself. The only person who can make you hate yourself is YOU.

[izayoi]

My opinion:

In her rant about sistas there were many things I actually agreed with. The weave thing is getting pretty tired ladies! As a temporary change ok, but I see too many teenage girls with butt length weaves. They are relying on false presentation way too early in life. Sistas we also do need to get control of our physical health and well being- not for men but for us too. The quality of our lives is adversely effected and shortened when we don't take care of ourselves. There are some men, good men, who are very honest about not wanting to take on the responsibility of another man's kids and who can blame them? That's their right, just like I don't date men with kids for the same reason.

What I do take exception to however is the presumption that one standard of beauty (thin and long hair) is what every man wants. When I visited parts of West Africa short hair was the norm and they preferred fuller figured women. Granted, that was Africa, but still we can't paint all men's preferences with one brush. I will say though that weight is an issue for American men and sista if you feel your weight is holding you back in the mating game, work on it. Don't just throw a girdle on it and strut! :lol: I have to say though I have seen many fat attached women. :confused: Maybe that's just the state of the US.:confused:


I thought she made some excellent points in her rant about brothers. Sad the ones that need the message, don't get it.
If your sister, mother, and aunts look like YOU how are they ugly and yet you dont cast that reflection on your self? Black folks have issues. :smh: The main one being denial it seems.

I still love you black people, but yall need counseling for real. :)

[OWL]

This captcha...I mean, does everyone HAVE deal with it...

anywho..

Uh...

Fucking Von...great writer, but sometimes...

First Post
I would argue that her stance is the need to compete for men from other races of women. Not "ladies lets feel good about ourselves, let's build our families back, let's establish some sort of dietary and athletic regimen". No. "Let's get our men! You B___ can't compete!" Yada Yada...Yada....*yawn*...yada...

Um...I don't think it is an accurate depiction of what is actually going on. For the most part, the sisters with the careers and often great attitudes are single. The sister with the two children(sometimes four) and the full figure are either happily dating or married. Yes, Black women in the US are actually still getting married!! Isn't that SHOCKING!!? And some don't have degrees, good credit, and (*looks around*) *whispers* some of them even have...bad attitudes...*runs*.

I mean Von raises some issues, superficial, but I suppose the superficial is often the issue. I think her analysis is quite shallow, and doesn't consider many of the historical elements and media impacts on her mind and the minds of men as well. Her discussion is quite dated, and the whole "big girl" vs. "skinny chick" thing is sort of junior high. But, hey, if objectification and getting money is the way for her to go, each their own olive tree...hope her fate is better than most with that attitude, rape and forced prostitution seems to be the new norm in the black community...

[izayoi]

Lol I loved your analysis Ow1. Yes you are right!
That competition for men framework rarely works out well for women.